Islands by Element270

Place holder post to remember how the guys at Element 270 made islands out of cork for Dystopian Wars. They could also be used for WWII naval games.

Naval Thunder River Plate

Graf Spee at the bottom and edge of the sea, I mean table

Graf Spee at beginning looking hopefully at the horizon for a win.

Graf Spee showing some pain-useless smoke cloud in the background

The beginning of the last turn-Graf Spee at the bottom of the screen

Game End - Graf Spee and one British Ship down.

Second play of Naval Thunder, but first with my painted ships! So much more fun. What was cool, as I got into it, I realized again what captured me about these rules. Very few rules, yet enough flavor for someone with a light interest in this theater of WWII to give them depth. Especially when the shells begin flying - the various hit results are engaging and I can completely picture what's going on.

I set up the River Plate Scenario out of the Bitter Rivals scenario book. Simple, just 4 ships:

Graf Spee

Exeter

Ajax

Achilles

I only had Graf Spee, but proxied the British ships. (I'm slowly getting better at doing this. Ridiculous because so many of my games are solo - it shouldn't matter. But hey, if I'm going to play, let's get it right - BRING YOUR A GAME SON!) 

Moving on.

This game, just like the last time I played this, was quick and bloody. Neither game did the Germans fare well. Perhaps I could bump up the command ratings to help in some of the recovery rolls. But Seriously, these games have been blow outs. Okay as a solo player, but putting this on at a con, it would not be cool for the German player.

Though, it hit me that it may be cool to be a one sided scenario. Meaning the participants play the British ships and the GM plays the Germans.

Barracks Battles Sunday Action

Just a short video of the action that took place on Sunday afternoon at DieCon, Barracks Battles. I only was able to play in Adam's General Quarters 3 WWII naval game. Great miniatures and tremendous group of guys to play with and against:
Japanese:
James, Dave, and Kevin
US
John, Joe, and me
GM
Adam

US was killed - I messed up with my torpedo laying, almost took out one of our own ships. Didn't, but the court of inquiry will be calling me in.




Interesting, seeing some of the things that Naval Thunder does similarly, but abstracted, to GQ3. This is why it's fun to play other systems to see the evolution of gaming. I really like Adam's basing. He used some aluminum found at the hardware store that has a texture to it - like what screen doors in the US have on them - paint and highlight. Perfect texture for the ocean. If I paint anymore, I will use this method.  Nice looking GHQ 1/2400 ships.

WWII Ships Finished

Finished the labels for the 1:3000 ships. I feel like they're complete finally.

I decided to not print any game stats on the labels so they could be proxies or used for other games.

Now to schedule a game with my local group here to get these into action and to teach them Naval Thunder.

Oh, I used Aleene's Tacky Glue, Clear to glue them onto the bases.

Birthday Work: The Good Kind

Didn't realize until today that I share a birthday with two of the bloggers I follow: Wargaming Girl and Ray, Don't Throw a 1. Happy BDay fellow bloggers.

The day started with opening a present from mum, or should I say "mom." Anyway, this is the second gift occasion where I've received a wargaming gift. Last X-mas is was Black Powder from dad. This year, GHQ, from mom! But that's many years after getting started in these crazy hobbies. I could completely relate to this post at Lead Doesn't Bleed about gifts and wargaming.
As soon as I saw the envelope I knew it was going to be good:
US21 Wolverine
US39 Dodge Weapons Carrier
US58 105mm Arty
US5 M7 Priest (most excited)
AC49 P47 Thunderbolt
AC8 Focke Wulf 190D (first ever two aircraft!)

Fun times ahead, now I need to order some bases from Scale Creep. (Blast, I just saw, as I was looking for the link to his store that he is having a 50% sale on many of his Baccus minis. Including Samurai - but now, most of them are gone...dang.)

After getting the oil changed, I went by the new location of Game Nite. They've moved into their new location from a mall to an old strip mall. However, they have a lot more room (and getting more). Now it's as much about minis as board games. It's also garnered (I don't think this is a good use of the word.) more of a gamer vibe than his previous location. Not sure if this is a good thing. I'll have to think about this.

Anyway, after visiting there, I swung by Miniature Market picked up a 1:3000 Wichita (city where I was born, so only appropriate on my birthday.) and a couple other things.

When I got home I worked on the bocage, hills, European manors, painted the waves on the 1:3000 WWII ships, and washed some samples of the fields to see how that affected them. In the last hour of the day I put some Battletech minis, my son painted, on the dining room table and tried out the Quick Strike rules. (I can blame this on after reading this post on Battletech Quick Strike on the blog On Wargames and Such.)The bocage turned out well. Except, I sprayed them with a spray adhesive, sprinkled flock and then sprayed some gloss finish spray...and man do those things ever stink. Spread upstairs to the point where I had to take them outside to air out. 24 hours later and they're still not good. They're in the garage. It was a lot of work. I hope I don't need to throw them out.

Naval Miniatures Based

Finally their based. Waves and labels are next.

Naval Thunder Comparison Renown v Littorio Pt 3

Part III - Gun Data
We’ve got the basic ship stats down. Now, let’s look at the stats for the guns and how these actually play out in a couple of examples.

Main Battery


The first section shows the Main Battery guns for each ship. They show the size, the number of guns in each turret, the number of turrets and the arc of fire (F=Forward, P=Port/Left, S=Starboard/Right, A=Aft)


For example, facing in the F/P/S arc of fire, Renown has 15” Guns(this matters in gameplay as you’ll see later). There are 2 guns in each turret and there are 2 Turrets. Therefore, in that arc of fire, Renown can bring a total of 4 guns to bear on a target.  In the R/P/S arc of fire there is 1 turret with 2 guns, meaning in that arc of fire there are two guns to fire at a target.


You’ll notice though that all the guns can face in the P and S arcs. Therefore, all the main guns could focus their fire in one of the two arcs. Renown could target a total of 6 guns on one enemy ship! You can target each turret at a different enemy ship. Though I’m not sure how wise that is.


Basically when it comes time to shoot,  you’ll fire 1d10 for each gun you’re firing.

You read the stats for the secondary batteries in the same way. For example, in the Port arc of fire Renown could fire up to 10 guns in one turn. (2 guns per turret x 5 turrets).




(BTW - I remember port=left from starboard=right because port has fewer letters than starboard and left has few letters than right.)


Therefore, the Renown can bring a max of 6 of it’s main guns to bear on any one target. The Littorio can bring 9 main guns. 

For secondary guns, Renown can bring a max of 10 guns. In certain ranges, Littorio can bring a max of 12 guns on one target. I say, “in certain ranges,” because Littorio has two different sizes of secondary guns that have different range bands.


Number of Main Battery Guns Advantage: Littorio
Number of Secondary Battery Guns Advantage: Littorio


Main Battery Gun Power


Again, it shows the size. Then it breaks each gun down to a range band in inches: Short, Medium, Long, Extra Long. Then it shows Pen or Penetration value of a gun. And finally, the damage the guns’ shells inflict.  


For example, The Renown’s main 15” guns have a max range of 60”. 45” is considered Long range. 30” is considered Medium range and 15” is considered short range. This makes a difference because range bands can add/subtract various modifiers. Whereas, the Littorio’s main guns have a range band of: max is 80”; long is 60”; medium is 40”; short is 20.


Next is the “Pen” or penetration value of the shell. The Renown’s main battery shell’s penetrate with a 12. The Littorio’s with a 14.  Remember, you add this to a roll of a d10 plus modifiers and compare it to the target’s armor value to determine the amount of damage you inflict.  You’ll see this later in the example of shooting.


Finally, Dmg or Damage per shell hit is shown. The Renown and Littorio main guns both inflict up to 10 points of damage for each gun/shell that hits. If the shells don’t penetrate, then half damage is applied. If there is no way, even by rolling a 10 that a shell could penetrate, then no point damage is taken. However, if a natural “10” is rolled then a “superstructure critical” roll is made.

Normally you roll 2d10 to determine critical damage and apply damage points. However, on a superstructure roll you only roll a 1d10 and don’t add any damage points from the shell hitting - though you may take some from the critical hit. By rolling just 1d10 you won’t have the chance of having some thing  like a magazine explosion.


Overall Range Advantage: Littorio
Overall Penetration Advantage: Littorio
Overall Damage Advantage: Neither


Torpedoes


Torpedoes list size, range band in inches, what kind of mounts, the number of tubes on a mount and then the arc where the torpedoes are mounted. In the case of Renown (no torpedoes on Littorio) she has 21” torpedoes, with a range band of: short is 4”; medium is 8; long is 12”. They are double mounted with 2 mounts in each port and starboard arc.


Here’s how you shoot and determine torpedo attacks. At the beginning of the ship’s shooting phase you record the target of the torpedo attacks. At the end of all the ships’ shooting phases you determine the result of the torpedo attacks. You determine these for each mount. You also use the same “Target/To Hit number” as your base. Again, there are modifiers based on a variety of factors.  You roll a d10 for each mount. In the case of the Renown you would roll 2d10 if you were firing the port or starboard torpedos.


For every successful hit rolled, that means a torpedo from the mount hit. If that is the case, then you get to roll for the other torpedoes in the the mount to see if they hit.


Torpedo Advantage: Renown


Aircraft


This is something I’ve not played yet. I’m not clear on the mechanics yet, and in this example, the plane that Littorio carries won’t help. Thought it could be of assistance in a longer run battle with Renown, depending on the circumstances. The plane is designated as an “R”, which mean reconnaissance.  Basically a recon plane can help with targeting for the main battery.

Aircraft Advantage: Littorio


If you look at the complete chart of pluses, it looks like Littorio comes out in the lead 9-4.




Next up, because this is already quite long, we look at an example of shooting from two different ranges. 

I need an editor!

Litko Bases Arrive - Quick Preview

Received the wooden Litko bases yesterday. This wood feels like I could snap it, but it also feels sturdier than balsa wood. The surface is also very smooth. The edges appear to be burnt.

They are 1.6mm thick (They also make a 3mm version). I bought 4 sizes and realized just a few minutes ago as I was measuring up the ships to them that one of the sizes, 60mm x 30mm, isn't for the ships. I got these if I decide to try painting up some 6mm samurai for Impetus.

Naval Thunder Comparison Littorio v Renown pt 2

 In a previous post I gave some of the basics to compare two ships in the Naval Thunder game, the HMS Renown and the Italian Littorio.




Target Number
NT uses d10s and each category of ship has a particular “Hit on” or Target number. For example, every Battlecruiser and Fast Battleship are hit on a roll of 7+. (A Battleship is hit on a 6+, and destroyers are hit on 9+. Though, there is talk of making destroyers have a “hit on” or target number of 10+.) This number can be, and is usually modified by a number of factors such as the range to target (ranging from 0 to 5); if the shooter has Fire Control (0 or -1); Rate of fire (shots at 20” or less); various conditional criteria (how far target moved, shooter has severe list, etc.); Crew and other technical modifications; and modifiers for torpedoes.


Advantage: neither.


Hull Points

Littorio

Next stat is the Hull, these are a number of points, in this case, Renown has 138, and Littorio has 150. After each hit, penetration and damage are determined and each gun does a specific amount of damage. For example, the main guns on the Littorio does 10 points of damage for each hit. So, one hit would take the Renown down to 128. Of course, when this reaches 0, the ship is out of commission. You can run the ship at full speed and shooting even if down to 1 hull point. 

However, this is very unlikely because, other issues like flooding, fires, bridge hits, rudder hits, main/secondary battery loss, etc will usually take effect, making a 1 hull point ship a very ineffective ship.


Advantage Littorio..


Speed
This is based on inches moved each movement phase. Both ships move 8”.


Advantage: neither.


Move Step
The sequence of play for NT is quite long. However, after a couple of turns, most of it becomes second nature. Each turn is broken down into phases. They are:

I. A/C & Submarine Battle Phase
II. Movement Phase
    A. Battleship Movement
    B. Cruiser Movement
    C. Destroyer Movement
III. Shooting Phase
    A. Battleship Shooting
    B. Cruiser Shooting
    C. Destroyer Shooting
    D. Torpedo Shooting
IV. End Phase (damage and command checks, etc)

Renown

Within each phase are several steps, but you get the point. Movement is simultaneous. For example, at the beginning of the Battleship Movement phase every player writes down their orders for how each Battleship, Fast Battleship and Fleet Carrier is going to move. Then, at the same time all players move those ships. You then do the same for Cruisers and Destroyers.


(Side note: I didn’t think I would be a fan of the simultaneious movement. However, after a couple games of Johnny Reb III and then a solo run through of NT, I like it.)


As you can see, it’s advantageous to move in the later steps because  you can see where the slower and bigger ships moved. In this case, the Renown is classified as Battlecruiser and therefore moves in the second Cruiser Movement step. Littorio, though a Fast Battleship, still moves first in the Battleship Movement step.


Advantage Renown.


Shoot Step
Similar to movement, shooting is simultaneous within each shooting step. So, in this case all ships classified, for shooting, as Battleships will shoot at the same time. Their hits on each other won’t affect their shooting during the current turn. However, their hits on the smaller and later shooting steps will be  affected and may not get a chance to shoot if damaged during the Battleship step. Battleships, Fast Battleships, and Battlecruisers all fall into the Battleship category for shooting.


Advantage: Neither.


Fire Control

This is broken down into four categories based on the nationality. In this example, the Renown as RDR which gives it a -1 modifier to the Target number for targets in the Short, Medium, and Long Ranges. (Note: There is an X-long Range. Also,German radar only gives a -1 to the target number at Long range.)  The Littorio is just STD, or standard and gets a modifier to target of 0.


Advantage Renown.


Armor Value (AV)
This represents the main armor of the ship that recieve the bulk of the hits when fired upon. When a hit is a achieved on a target, the shooter takes the “Penetration” factor of the gun they shot, add a d10 roll to it, add or subtract one of 5 modifiers and if this number is greater than the target’s AV then full damage is taken and another roll is made to see what critical damage is taken. 

If the Penetration+d10+modifiers is equal to or less than AV then half damage is applied to the ship. If there is no way the shell, with Penetration+d10+modifiers, can equal AV even if a 10 is rolled, then there is no hull damage. However, if a natural “10” is rolled then a “superstructure critical” roll is made...more on that in a later post.  Renown is 14 and Littorio is 18.


Advantage: Littorio


Secondary Armor Value (SAV)
This is the protection against torpedoes. It operates the same as AV, but just with torpedoes. Littorio is 6 and Renown is 5. Close, but in this case Littorio doesn’t have torpedoes and Renown does.


Advantage: Littorio


Anti-Aircraft/Submarine Warfare (AA/SW)
I’ve not played with Aircraft or submarines yet. However, basically every ship in the fleet, against an air attack, totals their AA number and rolls this number of d10 against all aircraft attacking them.  10+ hit and knock down the aircraft.


The same manner of play is used when defending against submarines. Total the SW ratings and roll this number of dice against the subs. 8+ hit.


There are more nuances to the rules, modifiers etc. But that’s about as much as I’m going to say about these since I’ve not experienced them before. But looking at the numbers:


AA Advantage: Renown
SW Advantage: Neither


Conclusion

If you look at a chart with pluses and minuses of advantages for the basic ship stats, it appears that Littorio has a slight advantage with  3 to 2. The movement advantage is a big deal because the Renown Captain can adjust their placement to get out of a harmful shot or to position for a better shot. The fire control is nice...if the ships had similar guns. More on that later.


The Littorio has advantages on stats that can help it to be much more resilient to damage. The AV 
difference is big, 4 points. This will help them not take serious damage more often than the Renown. In addition, more hull points means it will be in the fight longer.



In a future post we’ll compare their guns by looking at the stats and looking at a couple turns of firing.

And thank you all, we reached 50 followers!

Naval Thunder Comparison Chart - Renown v. Littorio

As you've seen from previous entries I've been working on some 1:3000 Davco ships. These are British, Italian, and German as I want to play the Atlantic and Mediterranean in WWII. After the last game convention I did a bit of research on Naval rules and not being a huge draw I wanted something fairly straight forward. I.E. less stats and detail.  I certainly see the appeal of General Quarters, but I knew I would never play something at that level on my own. Though, Adam, if you're reading this, I would certainly play in a hosted game.

HMS Renown

Victory at Sea was another, more closely considered, WWII naval game. It also abstracts more things than GQIII. At the moment I can't recall why I moved over those for my own use...but again, The Composer, if you're reading, I would love to play a game your hosting...especially since your miniatures are so well done!

Ultimately, I decided to go with Naval Thunder and I'm pretty happy I did. I've done a couple of solo runs and look forward to trying them with an opponent.

(Side note: Go here to the View from the Turret review of GQIII and of Victory at Sea. They also review Naval Thunder here.)

Littorio on the Right

While working on the ships, I've thought it would be interesting to take a couple of the ships and compare the stats to each other. For the first time, I picked the two ships that looked the coolest to me. Actually, the Italian ship Littorio looked the coolest with all the round secondary guns. Then I perused the British ships to compare it against and picked the Renown. Hindsight, I should have chosen a stronger British candidate, but they're fairly close... or are they?

I also thought this would be a good way to introduce some of the concepts of the Naval Thunder rules. I'll probably do this in 2-3 parts to avoid a book of an entry...wait, this is already a book.



In fact, I may end this now. In the next post, I'll discuss these basic stats and what they mean in the game and how they affect the performance and survivability of the each ship.

Though I will leave you with these little tidbits:
FC is Fire Control (RDR is radar and STD is not what you think it is...it's Standard)
AV is Armor Value, this is the main armor
SAV is Secondary Armor Value
AA is Anti-Aircraft value and
SW is Submarine Warfare value

d10s are the dice used in the game
move and firing for each ship type is simultaneous
move and firing is done in inches
each gun has a specific range band based on diameter and barrel length
each gun also has specific penetration and damage values as well

And, on a slightly different note: I just saw that The Composer has posted some new tutorials on how he built some of his ships. He knows how to model and paint 1:2400 ships - go check out the series beginning with this post.

Drydock Progress - Complete - Painting Anyway

The ships are "complete." I just need to base them. Which, apparently will be  a couple- to a few weeks.

I went onto the Litko site just to see if they have some kind of order tracking system when I clicked on the button that said "shipping and packaging information." They typically don't get orders out for 21 days...because they custom make their products...oh...Ok. Not really a big deal, but a little surprising. Whatever it takes to keep a miniature gaming business open.

So, now we wait...

I did try the wash on the Conte and the destroyers. Looks a little better. And will have to find the time and take some photos that are a tad more clear than these below.

Prince of Wales

And a bad picture of HMS King George V

By the way, this is post 100 and I'm 17 shy of 10,000 pageviews and 46 followers. Thank you to all who read and comment on the blog.

Drydock Progress 1:3000 4 Ships Complete!

Yes! More progress, just two more ships to go from the fleets I bought ages ago at Miniature Market.

King George V and Prince of Wales remain.

The Italian ship Conte Di Cavour has the center gun mounted, therefore modelling the WWI- dreadnought version. Oh well, I'll proxy it, but now have a ship if I decide to play dreadnought. Also, I will try the wash method suggested, after I paint these last two.

Ordered some Litko plywood bases for these ships as well. Getting excited that this project is getting closer.

Unfinished projects drive me crazy...not sure I'm in the right hobby!

Renown

HMS Queen Elizabeth

HMS Malaya

Italian Conte Di Cavour - Before WWII Retrofits-blast

Dry dock progress 1:3000 Ships

Slow progress on the WWII ships for Naval Thunder. Finished Littorio and Scharnhorst. Though I think Scharnhorst could use a wash - I may give it a shot. It takes me about 1 and a quarter of an hour for two ships. Considering the quality, this just seems very slow.

Drydock part 4 or 5 - Italian Ships

Zara

Trento

Italian ships are fun because they have the red and white recognition stripes. I don't know if they all had them, but they look cool, help differentiate the ships and aren't too hard to paint. Easier than a flag.

Drydock pt 3 - More Progress

HMS Dorsetshire

KMS Hipper

Dry Dock paining - some completed ships

Lutzow

Lutzow

Started painting ships for Naval Thunder. These are the 1/3000 ships I found for a $1.00 each at Miniature Market.

This is harder than I thought.

And I will paint my destroyers from here on out with a grey paint and a couple touch ups like black on the stacks and perhaps some dry-brushing. I painted the HMS South Hampton and Arethusa. Yeah, this is not pretty. But I want to keep them the way they are to hopefully see how I improve.

The South Hampton I could find only had two stacks and I couldn't find anything about retrofits. Mine has 3 stacks - maybe I can say it's extra fast! Just kidding purists!

The Graf Spee and Lutzow however, were fun to paint.

And yes, I've reached new levels of Nerdaton with my attempt at painting a swastika flag on the bow of the Lutzow. Yes, using a filament off an old toothbrush. Better luck next time.

Graf Spee

It's fascinating the paint schemes they used on ships in WWII. Some of them are quite effective making the ship look different than it  is. You can imagine at sea and dusk that it would be hard to get a good spot while targeting.

I've been thinking of basing and was going to get some Litko But I'm really trying to not spend money. I'm either going to try cutting some plexiglass I have (though I hear it's challenging) or perhaps using a heavy letraset. Like a heavy cardstock. With the latter I'm concerned for warping.

On another note: tried playing Basic Impetus again with the paper representing Samurai and Korea. And not so much interest this time. Impetus is a good set. I like the rules. Nice and easy to get, like Naval Thunder. However, I just wasn't interested in finishing out my test. And, when I was looking over the rules to clarify a few things, I found myself forcing the issue. It's my hobby and have other things I would like to try. I'll put thoughts of this era aside for awhile. When I get around to reading the books I bought for the era my interest may be rekindled.

On yet another note: watched the original True Grit and enjoyed it more than I thought I would. I'm leaning toward the new one as my favorite. I was impressed with the 1969 iteration though.

Here are a few of the sites I'm using as guidelines for painting and books for inspiration:
http://www.bismarck-class.dk/index.html
http://steelnavy.com/gallery_cruisers.htm
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/index1.html
http://uboat.net/index.html 
 

From Amazon

From Amazon

From Amazon

You Guessed It, From Amazon

And My Favorite, From Amazon

Dry dock and volcanos

This isn't much of a video, but here's a couple minutes of me showing the ships I have before and after primer.

I dry brushed quickly a black and a grey. The black looks better. I need to find some color plates/photos to see what I should e doing for paint.

These are the World War II 1/3000 British, German, and Italian ships I bought for a dollar each to play Naval Thunder.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75RqZBkGAkY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

In addition, I made this plaster volcano w my son for his 3rd grades project .